Self-Hating Latinos & the Internalized Logic of Borders

The words we speak reveal the fears we carry. When fellow Latinos say "I did it the legal way" or "they're not like us," what's really happening beneath these statements? This raw, unflinching exploration of internalized anti-immigrant attitudes within Latino communities pulls back the curtain on our community's most uncomfortable truth: sometimes we become the very border patrol we claim to resist.

Drawing from my personal immigration journey that spanned nearly a decade, I share how the process separated my family for years while my grandmother raised me in my parents' absence. This wasn't by choice but by circumstance – a reality many immigrants face regardless of their documentation status. The immigration system isn't simply about filling out forms; it's years of paperwork, changing policies, financial strain, and emotional tolls spread across entire families.

Most revealing is the myth that perfect assimilation will shield us from discrimination. No matter how flawlessly we speak English or how "American" we become, those who view us as "other" will always see us that way. This proximity to whiteness offers no real protection – it's a constant exhausting audition that requires cutting off essential parts of ourselves. When we echo border logic and enforcement rhetoric, we become complicit in our own oppression through what I call "pick-me patriotism."

If your family came here "the legal way," I challenge you to use that privilege to advocate rather than distance yourself from others. Question who taught you that following rules would protect you, and what they feared. Remember that what harms one immigrant ultimately harms us all – we are interconnected beyond artificial boundaries.

This conversation might make you uncomfortable, but that discomfort signals growth. Pass this episode to your tía, your primo, your coworkers, and let's dismantle the walls built not just around us, but within us. Together, we can remember who we truly are.

Hey hey—it’s your girl Johanny Ortega, a.k.a. J.E. Ortega if you’re feeling spooky 👻 I’ll be at the 7th Annual LATINA Fest on June 1st in downtown L.A. with copies of Mrs. Franchy’s Evil Ring AND a physical sneak peek of The Ordinary Bruja! Come through to the Author’s Corner for books, brujita vibes, and cafecito. Get tickets on Eventbrite!

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Episode Theme
• 3:15 "I Did It The Legal Way" Unpacked
• 8:23 The Weight of Anti-Immigrant Language
• 15:25 My Immigration Story
• 20:47 The Myth of Assimilation as Protection
• 27:33 Breaking Free from Self-Hating Patterns
• 30:01 Closing Thoughts and Next Episode

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Oh we could, we could fly. Welcome back to have a Cup of Johnny. This season isn't about hustling harder. It's about coming home to yourself, to your voice, to your breath, to the quiet truth that you're still here and you're not starting over. You're starting again. This is your space to reflect, reset and remember who we tell you. So pour your cafecito and let's begin the phrase. I did it. The legal way is an afflux. Legal way is an afflux. It's actually a warning, a sign that whiteness has gotten too close to the heart. Hello everyone, and welcome back to have a Cup of Joannie. Podcast.

Speaker 1: 1:02

This is episode three of the series I didn't plan to do but had to do, because the world is heavy and so much of that heaviness starts in how we talk, how we think and what we internalize. Today we're diving into one of the most uncomfortable truths I've had to sit with, truths I've had to sit with, and that is that some of the most harmful anti-immigrant language it comes from inside our own communities. Have you all ever heard or seen in social media these videos of Latino creators saying the worst enemy a Latino can have is not a gringo, it's another Latino. So this episode is called Self-Hating Latinos and the Internalized Logic of Borders. And I already know this is going to ruffle some feathers. But here we are, that's okay. Ruffle some feathers, but here we are, that's okay, because sometimes feathers need to be ruffled if they've been smoothing over injustice. So let's begin.

Speaker 1: 2:13

Let me say this up front, though. I've heard it too many times. And here comes these phrases Just imagine me doing the quotation marks. Well, I did it the right way. My parents came here legally. They're not like us, they're criminals. If they just assimilated better, they'd be fine. Every time I hear these phrases, I don't hear pride, I hear fear. Fear that if we stand too close to the wrong kind of immigrant, we'll be seen that way too. It's like we've become infected. So we distance ourselves, we moralize borders and we worship assimilation like it's our salvation. So let's break it down right, because it's bigger than just a one-liner. When someone said I did it the legal way quote, unquote what they're really saying is let me break it down to you.

Speaker 1: 3:17

I suffered and I want others to suffer too. This is very close to the people that say I paid all my student loans. I don't want anybody else to have their student loans forgiven and I'm like what, what? I even got on social media. I was like I paid all my student loans, like legit, pay them. It took me years, but I paid them. And you know what? I would be so happy if other students get their student loans wiped off, forgiven, because that will make it better for them.

Speaker 1: 3:57

You know, it's like a parent said well, I suffered, I got out of the house at 16, 17, 18. I got out of the house at 16, 17, 18. Therefore, my kid is going to do the same and I'm like what I'm like. Why am I going to let the next generation suffer because I suffered? We should be making things better, evolving, right, learning, not allowing the next generation to suffer the same kind of trauma that we had. Their trauma should be evolved trauma, right, it should be way beyond what we suffered. But when you say that, when you hear that, even if it's not you saying it, and you hear that, just know that that is stemming from fear and from selfishness as well, because you want somebody to suffer just like you. And I usually don't talk about my immigration story because it's like, it's like very normal, right, it's like the immigration story of a lot of people and I never found it unique or anything like that, but in the time that we're in now I feel like I need to talk about it.

Speaker 1: 5:11

So the entire reason why my grandma raised me since I can remember like I don't have a memory of my parents growing up I didn't know my parents growing up. I didn't meet my parents until I came to the United States. Why is that? Because they had to leave. Because they got their papers before me and it took almost 10 years. For my sister and I to be able to get papers after they left Took 10 years and a lot of money that I didn't even comprehend at that time. But we were lucky that we had the money, we had the resources and my mom had the family. She had her mom, my grandmother that could step up and do that. But for my grandmother that could step up and do that, but for my grandmother that took a toll Two little badass girls and she was already tired, having raised eight kids of her own, to raise two more. That took a toll on that woman. I owe that woman my life and that is the things that people don't understand.

Speaker 1: 6:24

Immigration is not just this one thing that happens. It's not just this one form that one fills out, this one appointment. It's years and years, it's steps after steps until it finally happens. And oh, by the way, the administration in either country changes, the policies and the paperwork and the fines change, and sometimes we had to start from scratch because of that, because our paperwork would be in queue. And then the administration changed in the United States, and I remember we went through an election in the Dominican Republic as well, and all of that. So when those things change, the leadership changes, they change immigration laws, they change applications, and all of that is kind of like a domino effect. But that's what I'm saying. It's not just that, it's what everyone else feels as well.

Speaker 1: 7:20

My uncles had to chip in because now they had to help my grandmother raise us, they had to give extra money, they had to take odd jobs. You know all these different things, all these different dominoes that are affected by this decision, you see, and that decision didn't come lightly. You know, my mom didn't just say, you know what, fudge this all. I'm going to go to the United States because I want to. No, she didn't have a way of making a living any longer there.

Speaker 1: 7:56

She was a woman, had divorced. My dad had like no prospects at all. She couldn't find a job. She was like I need to do something else. There were just no opportunities there. The only other way for her would have been to try to marry somebody else and live off of that person. And that was not something that she was willing to do because her last relationship was unhealthy, you know. So she already carried that trauma. So she had to leave. She had to go through a different avenue and it just so happened that the one that was more available to her at the time and the one where she knew people at, because some of my family members they went to Germany, actually, some went to Puerto Rico, I think a few even went to Spain.

Speaker 1: 8:55

So it really just boils down to the connections that you have in these places, because you want kind of like somebody there was something there that you know right to be able to kind of for lack of better words to help you out when you get there, because it's tough, it's tough and for those that don't know anybody and immigrate, that means God, they really had it really bad, because that is like the most anxiety-ridden thing that one can do. It's just blindly run away from something and go into the unknown, just put yourself in those shoes. That is extremely, extremely anxiety-ridden to do that. So what I'm saying is, right through the explanation of my immigration story, which is really nothing out of the ordinary, it's just that it's not done lightly, that's one, and it doesn't happen right away. So you hear of people seeking asylum and people like, well, it's been five years, why don't they have paperwork anymore? You know any longer. And I just like I just shake my head sometimes at these comments and I'm like, god, tell me you don't know nothing about immigration without telling me you don't know nothing about immigration Because for real, like really Really are not financially stable to begin with.

Speaker 1: 10:26

Hence why they need to leave, so that way they can provide for their families in a better way, because there are no opportunities there. You know either that or I know because I have a lazy eye. My mom also wanted me to get my surgery done because the pediatrics doctors were better and she knew, and Boston, that they had more opportunities there. But immigration took so long, the whole process took so long, that when I got the surgery it was too late. I had already grown up too much, according to the surgeon. If they would have gotten me five years before, he told me I would have gotten the surgery and gotten the therapy, that happened afterwards and then you wouldn't have noticed that I had a lazy eye. But as it happens, because it just the process once again, people, the process is so long that you know it wasn't fully fixed, it was mildly fixed, so I had to learn to love myself, you know that way. That's another hurdle.

Speaker 1: 11:29

So I'm trying to explain and I hope that you guys understand this, that it's not that immigration is so complex, it's that it is so much more to it than the superficiality that people think, is it, you know? But if you just understand that no one takes that decision lightly, that's one and two, that to get it done quote unquote the right way, takes a whole lot more effort and money than you probably could even think it takes. And if you just hold those two truths there, you would understand why people are still pending immigration statuses and things of that nature, or why they cross the border, or why they come in visas and they overstay their visas and things of that nature, which actually that's usually what happens. People tend to think like, oh, it's just all these people crossing the border. No, most people come over here on visas and they overstay their visas. So that's another thing that people get wrong and it's okay to be wrong. You know, if you just admit it and if you just open yourself up to listening to people with the experience to tell you otherwise, as opposed to being this contrarian person, that unless it comes from your very close circle source that you don't believe it or you shun it or you automatically think people are lying. I just want people to know those two truths. If you don't know anything else out of this episode.

Speaker 1: 13:15

But when you hear phrases like that, like I did it the legal way, that's what I hear. You know I suffer. I want others to suffer too. If I had to prove my worth and go through all that hurdle, they should too. And you know, and I used to say that hurdle, they should too. And you know, and I used to say that when I say like 10, 12 years ago, I used to be a parrot and say that same thing and I had to sit with myself and be like what the fuck am I talking about?

Speaker 1: 13:48

And it was like this moment from talking to people that either crossed the border or had family members that crossed the border and understanding the persecution that they were running away from that's one, and two. The limited resources that they had, that's two. And then understanding from my experience how hard it is to get papers while you're in your country, before even coming here, that's three. So when I put those things together, their story and what I knew from my experience and my story, I was like shit, you're right. You're right.

Speaker 1: 14:28

Why am I here judging these people that are immigrants just like me, only because they did it in a different way. They did it in the best way that they could do it for themselves, with the resources that they had at the time, under the situation that they was in at that time, you see, and I had to drop that judgment, but before that, I had to understand that I was wrong, that I was not seeing their full picture, that I was asking them to live their life the way that I was living my life, and that's the thing. We're all different, you know. We are all our own little worlds, walking in this shared piece of land that we call Earth. That's it. I had to sit with it and when I finally came to from that realization, that shit hasn't left my mouth yet Because it's wrong. Shit hasn't left my mouth yet Because it's wrong, because that's fear, that's selfishness that I refuse to allow inside.

Speaker 1: 15:40

Now there's another myth out there and it sounds like this If you speak perfect English, no one will question you. If you dress the right way, talk right, work hard, be respectable, nothing bad will happen to you. Don't make waves, be the good kind of immigrant. But that's assimilation, and assimilation never, never, shielded anyone. It's like. That's why I try to tell my Latinos like you can try all you want, right To masquerade, to mask yourself, to shun your identity, who you are, where you came from, and all of that in the hopes that people will welcome you with open arms. But at the end of the day, tigers know their tigers, lions know their lions. You know, I learned that the hard way.

Speaker 1: 16:38

White girls at school always knew I was not part of them, regardless of how light my skin was. You know so I ni de aquí ni de allá. And then I was too nerdy to be part of the cool Latino kids at school. You know so I was like in the middle, like no man's land, but it didn't matter how good my English was right or how fast I learned it and how good my accent was, like they always knew I was not part of them. They knew who their people are and they knew I was not their people. And when I say they, I'm talking anyone that is not Latino, that doesn't have an openness for other people. In my experience that usually happened with white folks, and I think that's because I lived in Massachusetts for a long time where those white folks that weren't very welcoming to outsiders, to other people kind of like, kept me at arm's length and they always gave me that vibe of you're not like us, you're not part of our group. So I learned very early on coming to the United States that it didn't matter how hard I tried to learn English fully, just involve myself. Everything is English, everything that I consume is English, fixing my accent, changing the way I dress to a more preppy outfit and stuff like that, buying the things that they buy, and all of that. It didn't matter those that chose not to welcome me because I was not part of their group. They simply didn't welcome me. They always knew.

Speaker 1: 18:20

So assimilation is not a shield for us. If anything, it makes us more vulnerable, not just to rejection, because I don't think that's very important, but it makes us more vulnerable and more of a target for other people who are like that to punch us down, because they know that now they have somebody that is malleable, somebody that is weak, because they have denied who they are. And I think when you deny who you are, you kind of give up your power. And people know that and I hate to say this, but it's kind of like you smell the fear in them, because only fearful people do that. They give their power away in the hopes that quote unquote somebody more powerful than them will umbrella them, take them in and protect them. But what they don't know is that if only they held on to their power and who they are, they will be able to protect themselves. You see what I'm saying.

Speaker 1: 19:24

So assimilation is not a shield, if anything. It's a muzzle, it's a costume, it's a constant audition. It is exhausting audition. It is exhausting, trust me, it is exhausting. I told somebody oh God, I forgot who it was I was like I love being in Latino communities because it's like I feel so at home and it's something about being around people and the culture that just like makes me drop my guard so fast. It's insane and I don't realize half the time that I have my guard on until that happens and I feel so light and so free just being able to talk to somebody in Spanish, being able to commiserate about food, about our music right, about shared memories and anecdotes and things that we have in common. It's just something else, I tell you.

Speaker 1: 20:21

So assimilation won't save us because, no matter what, you can never do everything right, because I go back to, you're not part of that group. You're still going to be known as being another. You're still going to get stopped, questioned, denied, deported, detained, dismissed, dehumanized. Assimilation is only proximity to whiteness. That's it. You get close to it, but you're not it, you're not in it, right? So it doesn't give you no protection, right? Which brings me to the most insidious layer of this proximity to whiteness. It doesn't save you, but so many Latinos will believe that it does and they chase it like mirror it. They raised their kids on it. Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 1: 22:14

I remember when I first came in and I was living with my auntie and my uncle. I remember I came from school and I think it was because I was belittled so badly. You know, this was in Brooklyn. They just they put me down so much about my accent. They surrounded me, all these kids in Brooklyn and kept asking me how do you say the time? I remember vividly how do you say the time? And you know, in Spanish we say we don't say 10-09, we say 10-9, you know so I was translating it verbatim from Spanish to English and once a little kid caught on to that he got like a whole bunch of friends gang up on me, everybody circled me and it wasn't until my cousin noticed that I was in the middle of the circle and pulled me out. I was like, oh my God, and I went home. You know, I got on the train, got back home and all of that, and I came and I announced to my auntie I don't ever want to speak Spanish. Spanish is horrible, it's so ugly. I just want to speak English from now on.

Speaker 1: 23:30

But that was me reacting to this very bad experience that I had. In a way it was like me trying to think that if only I get close to that ideal right, these things wouldn't be happening to me. I would have been saved. I'm glad my auntie talked to me. She was like I'd never seen this lady mad. She hardly gets mad. But she got up from her table and she was like don't you dare say anything like that ever again? She was like you are Dominican, born and raised in the Dominican Republic. Your parents taught you Spanish and that is who you are and you don't give that up for anyone. And I remember being mad. I didn't say anything because I was taught to respect, right, respect my elders. Plus, I was living in my auntie's house. You know, that was a big no-no. I would have gotten spanked by her and then by my mom once I went to live with my mom. So that was a big no-no.

Speaker 1: 24:35

But you see what I'm saying, that reaction that I had. But if my auntie would have been somebody else, perhaps that would have been nurture, as opposed to someone setting me straight, being like no, your identity is powerful. It's okay to learn other things outside of your culture, but your identity is powerful. It's okay to learn other things outside of your culture, but your identity is powerful. It is nothing wrong with your identity, with who you are, you see, because whiteness, in the American imagination, is not just a race, it's a hierarchy, and if we can get close enough that's the mentality Maybe we'll be saved. Maybe we'll be saved, maybe we'll be respected, maybe we won't be gang up at in school at recess, maybe we'll be left alone. But the truth is that whiteness doesn't make room at the table. It just hands out crumbs to make you feel lucky, while it builds a wall behind you to keep others out and you continue to like, try to get close and close to it, and steadily they're building a wall. That's not community people, that's co-opted compliance. That's co-opted compliance.

Speaker 1: 26:00

So when we echo the logic of borders right, we become enforcers of our own oppression. And that's why I say, like that video, those memes that I see, that the worst enemy of a Latino is a self-hating Latino. It is so true. We become the enforcers of our own oppression. It's pick-me energy dressed up as patriotism. Pick-me America, I follow all the rules. Pick-me I don't march in the streets with those rioters. Pick-me I speak English. Pick me I speak English. Pick me I work hard, I vote for the right party. I am not like them.

Speaker 1: 26:40

But here's what I want you to ask who are you trying to impress and what part of yourself are you cutting off to belong? Because true belonging doesn't require you to hate yourself or hate your identity or betray your identity. You see what I'm saying. If you truly belong, you wouldn't have to give up any of that. So what now? What do we do? Right after I just said all this mess? Well, here's what I want us to sit with. If your family came here, the legal way, use that privilege to advocate, not distance yourself. If you grew up thinking the system would protect you if you played by the rules, ask yourself who taught you that and what were they afraid of. If you ever said that's not our problem, I need you to realize that language is the problem, because what harms one of us in this shared piece of land we call Earth harms all of us. We are interconnected and I want us to think back about COVID, right, because that is the perfect example of how one affected gets passed down to everyone, regardless of borders, regardless of race, regardless of culture.

Speaker 1: 28:27

Try to make it as light, as funny as possible. I hope you got something. I usually don't talk about my immigration story, not because I'm afraid of it, but because it's not unique. It's very common. You can talk to any immigrant and they'll probably tell you the same story or very similar story to mine. But I hope it taught you that it's not as superficially simple as most have been made to believe or as most have comprehended it to be Okay.

Speaker 1: 29:03

And if you heard my accent, I mean that's just it. I have an accent, no matter how long I speak English for, but I also speak Spanish and I speak a little bit of French too. So there you go. I speak more than just one thing. Anywho, next week I'm talking about disassociation people, how checking out and saying not my business might feel like survival, but it actually feeds injustice.

Speaker 1: 29:33

The episode will be called, if I don't change it. Disassociation is a Neutral, is Complicity, and if today made you squirm, that's good. That's good. That means that you're listening and that we are fighting against some truths that we need to recheck and revalidate, and that is okay. It's okay to have those squirming feelings when you hear something that you don't fully agree with. It's okay.

Speaker 1: 30:02

Think about it, sit with it and let me know Next week's going to make you think as well. And if you're ready to sit with all of this and still love yourself through it, because you are learning and you are growing, share this episode. Tag me, Talk to your tia, your primo, your co-worker. Let's be better than the walls they built for us. Don't forget I'm Joa and I still believe in us, even when we forget who we are. See you next week. Bye, if today's episode spoke to you, share with somebody who's finding their way back too, and if you haven't yet, visit haveacupofjoanicom for more stories, blog posts and the bits that started it all. Thank you for being here. Until next time, be soft, be bold and always have a cup of John.